Thursday, October 6, 2011

CONTROVERSIAL Song - "Someone Worth Dying For" MIKESCHAIR

Biblically educated Christians are surely on the decline. What can one expect when doctrine and bible study is replaced with expressive dance, self-help psychology classes, dynamic and interactive classes where the discussion is so shallow that it is impolite to even mention the word hell or repent. Even Rick Warren bragged about teaching a 12-week class on sanctification without using the word once. IMPRESSIVE! I recenly heard a song entitled, "Somone Worth Dying For." It is NOT what you are thinking. I thought I would consider people I care about worth dying for from my perspective. I would certainly consider Jesus worth dying for. If that is what you think this song is talking about, try again. The song, "Someone Worth Dying For" is talking about you and me. The person that died for us is Christ. Imagine that! Jesus considered us WORTH dying for! We are really, really special. So special, that Jesus died for us!

You might be the wife,

Waiting up at night
You might be the man,
Struggling to provide
Feeling like it's hopeless

Maybe you're the son,
Who chose a broken road
Maybe you're the girl,
Thinking you'll end up alone

Praying God can you hear me?
Oh God are you listening?

(Chorus)

Am I more than flesh and bone?
Am I really something beautiful?
Yeah, I wanna believe, I wanna believe that
I'm not just some wandering soul
That you don't see and you don't know
Yeah I wanna believe, Jesus help me believe that I
Am someone worth dying for

I know you've heard the truth that God has set you free
But you think you're the one that grace could never reach
So you just keep asking, what everybody's asking

Chorus

You're worth it, you can't earn it
Yeah the Cross has proven
That you're sacred and blameless
Your life has purpose

You are more than flesh and bone
Can't you see you're something beautiful
Yeah you gotta believe, you gotta believe
He wants you to see, He wants you to see

That you're not just some wandering soul
That can't be seen and can't be known
Yeah you gotta believe, you gotta believe that you
Are someone worth dying for

You're someone worth dying for
You're someone worth dying for

The words you or I appear approximately38 times in this song. God appears 3 times.
What does this do to grace? The uncritical thinker has no clue! If we are worth dying for, then Christ's death was not unmerited, was it? We were worth dying for and therefore, Christ SHOULD have died for us. He did not redeem us because He is full of grace and mercy. He redeemed us because we are special and we were worth it.

Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." A sinner is a moral outcast, a wicked God hating vile person who rejects God. We have so softened the word that it has all but lost it's meaning. The sinner should sting our moral senses. It should cause an inward moral flinch. Think about how you feel if someone called you a rapist, a murdered, or a pedaphile. How would that feel? Same difference!

Now, here is another modern song that is actually theologically rich with meaning and an accurate reflection of man's relation to Christ.

In Christ alone my hope is found;

He is my light, my strength, my song;
This cornerstone, this solid ground,
Firm through the fiercest drought and storm.
What heights of love, what depths of peace,
When fears are stilled, when strivings cease!
My comforter, my all in all—
Here in the love of Christ I stand.

In Christ alone, Who took on flesh,
Fullness of God in helpless babe!
This gift of love and righteousness,
Scorned by the ones He came to save.
Till on that cross as Jesus died,
The wrath of God was satisfied;
For ev'ry sin on Him was laid—
Here in the death of Christ I live.

There in the ground His body lay,
Light of the world by darkness slain;
Then bursting forth in glorious day,
Up from the grave He rose again!
And as He stands in victory,
Sin's curse has lost its grip on me;
For I am His and He is mine—
Bought with the precious blood of Christ.

No guilt in life, no fear in death—
This is the pow'r of Christ in me;
From life's first cry to final breath,
Jesus commands my destiny.
No pow'r of hell, no scheme of man,
Can ever pluck me from His hand;
Till He returns or calls me home—
Here in the pow'r of Christ I'll stand.
I or me appears 14 times in this song and in a very different context. God is mentioned 10 times and even more than that if you count personal pronouns. My point is that these are two modern songs. One is distinctly theological while the other is based in modern self-esteem. One is God-centered while the other is me-centered.

Grace evaporates in this kind of thinking. This is why people engage in all kinds of ungodly thinking regarding Christian teaching and how they should think about God. Man, in reality, hates grace because in order for grace to true, man has to be desperately wicked and undeserving of anything good from the hand of God. This is why some people argue that people can enter heaven outside Christ. They do not understand grace. No one deserves to go to heaven. NO ONE! No one deserves even a chance! NO ONE! No one deserves to hear the gospel! NO ONE! When they do, it is grace on God's part. He is under no moral obligation to one thing for one human on this earth. But for grace, we would all rightly be in hell. Let us repent of our failure and refusal to use our minds to serve God and begin to think the way God has commanded us to think!








49 comments:

  1. however you failed to capitalize several articles used to denote God. just as in the Bible there are several times that "He" and "You" are used to refer to God.

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  2. Tis true, I did. I wanted to avoid piling on or at least the appearance of piling on. :-)

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  3. This song does express that Jesus died for us. The song is speaking to people that think they are worthless and don't think their life is worth dying for.It is for people that dont know of Christ. The scripture used for this song is John 3:16-17, which you being so biblically inclined know. In the bridge of the song it states "youre worth it, you cant earn it yeah the cross has proven that youre sacred and youre blameless, youre life has purpose" which is basically said be Jesus. We know we're not worth Him dying for us but he tells us we are. He wants us to find our worth in Him because Christ is the only one who can see our worth looking else where leads nowhere. Just because His name is not in the song the amount of times YOU see fit for it to be a christian song doesnt mean a thing. The message that God loves us all is still beaming through.

    "For God did not send His Son into the world to condem the world, but that the world might be saved through Him."

    You and I are someone worth dying for.

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  4. Find that in the bible, really find that. No it says that Christ died for the ungodly. Not that he died for those worth dying for.

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  5. Interesting to note that, using your elaborate "counting" methods, the following article title mentions "you" two times and "God" only once. Should the title also be deemed dis-grace-ful?
    http://reformedreasons.blogspot.com/2011/11/how-do-you-know-that-you-know-god.html

    Or how about your very own side banner on your blog to the right? I see a lot of you. I see two pictures of you with four mentions your degrees. (Though you try to claim it's not about you, it is clear that the picture is of you and the the degrees listed with your name imply that you have earned such.) Many other men are also mentioned. Yet "God" is only mentioned once. Should we deem the side banner dis-graceful also? Could we develop an entire article about how your side banner is so all-about-you and should mention Christ more? Probably so.

    Your article above sets up a straw man of "man-centered-ness" based on a simple counting metric and potential misinterpretation. You then go about defeating the straw man who may have never really existed. The song obviously has a foundation of Christ. God died for us! We've been redeemed! So awake from you funk and depression! Set your mind on the Spirit, not the flesh.

    Counting doesn't work. Men like to keep count. Apply your silly counting standard to your own titles and blog banners before blasting a song that centers on a grace unearned (by us) while constantly reminding us that we are individuals created in the image of God and not randomly evolved (a message that the world pushes down our throats). We are more than flesh.

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  6. The comparison between a blog and a song is really apples and oranges. That you don't see that is interesting. In the blog, two songs were laid side by side for comparison. That is fair. When looking at a person's blog, people want to know that they are not part of some wild cult from the dark places where men never travel. Right? Rather than defend the theology in the song, you attack the blogger. That is not cool.

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  7. I for one agree with this blog. It's interesting to see that on major Christian radio stations they play this song. Theologically it's incorrect. Though might state it's a way of witnessing. I'd have to say that is the wrong way to witness. We need to be humbled and see how depraved we are to reach repentance. Not a hug and say "It's ok bud, You're worth so much Jesus needed to die for you."

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  8. Thank you Dr. Dingess! Thank you for putting in print what is so obvious. This type of lyrics is not only untrue, it is dangerous. To all my Christian brothers and sisters; we need to be careful, cautious, and discerning.

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  9. This is a beautiful song. It is not saying that we are worthy of Christ's sacrifice by our own merit, but rather that we are deemed worthy only by the grace and love of God. Notice that the song states, "you CAN'T earn it, yeah the CROSS has PROVEN that you're sacred and you're blameless, you're life has purpose." Also notice that the song does not say anything about us making our selves worthy, only that we are proven worthy because of CHRIST. Through His sacrifice, Christ has proven that we ARE worth it TO HIM. The cross reminds us of that. As Paul writes in 2 Timothy 1:9, "not because of anything we have done, but because of his own purpose and grace." Our worth is in Christ. In the eyes of Christ, we were worth dying for. He loved us and wanted to restore us to being with Him, despite our unworthiness. To Him, we were worth saving at the cost of his sacrifice. This song is a message of good news for all those people who cannot believe that the God of the universe would sacrifice anything, none the less his own son, to restore them to Himself as His children. He did! Despite our own unworthiness, God loves His sinful children so much that He sees us as worthy of such sacrifice, not because of our own worthiness, but because of His great love for us. That's what this song is about, and to this good news I say thanks be to God!

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  10. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. Umm, I think you're a little confused. If we were not worth dying for then Jesus, God wasted his time on us. He died to save us from death. He died so that we could live. Our lives are worth dying for, if they weren't then Jesus wasted his time and his life on us. I'm not sure how you can't see that.

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    2. Umm, I think you're a little confused. If we were not worth dying for then Jesus, God wasted his time on us. He died to save us from death. He died so that we could live. Our lives are worth dying for, if they weren't then Jesus wasted his time and his life on us. I'm not sure how you can't see that.

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    3. If there was something intrinsic in us that was worth the death of Christ, then the death of Christ was NOT an act of grace but an obligation on God's part. Your understanding destroys grace and obligates God to save us.

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  11. Thank you for writing this! I heard this song a couple days ago and was not in agreement on it. I can see where they are coming from, but you have to dig deep to show what they might really mean. To unbelievers listening to this song, it would sound like we ourselves are worth dying for. It is not obvious when listening to this song casually that it is about people after conversion. I was very happy to see that I was not the only one who questioned the lyrics.

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  12. Here's the band in their own words...might have been nice for all you haters out there to actually seek it before putting your interpretation on someone else's words... I can only hope you don't make that same careless and reckless mistake with actual scripture... ask, seek and knock...don't just spout out you who darkens counsel without knowledge...

    The message of this song for us is so humbling, and I can’t find a better reason to worship than the fact that although I’m not worth it, Christ died to make me worthy. Jesus explained that He came to die as a humble servant on our behalf. There are critics that will say we’re not worthy of God dying for our sins. That’s exactly the point, we’re totally not worth it on our own. That’s the beauty of the Gospel; Jesus Himself tells us that we are worth dying for. You can’t even sing a children’s song like “Jesus Loves Me” and then say in the same breath that we’re not worth anything. Our hope is that this song doesn’t bring an essence of pride in any way that we’re worth something, it’s more the humble realization that even though we’re not worth what Jesus did, He did it anyway. That means it has nothing to do with us, it has everything to do with what He has done for us. There’s so much freedom in that.

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  13. Perhaps, you should've asked, sought, or knocked to find what the song actually meant from the ones who penned it? I can only hope you;re less careless and reckless in your interpretation of actual scripture...

    The message of this song for us is so humbling, and I can’t find a better reason to worship than the fact that although I’m not worth it, Christ died to make me worthy. Jesus explained that He came to die as a humble servant on our behalf. There are critics that will say we’re not worthy of God dying for our sins. That’s exactly the point, we’re totally not worth it on our own. That’s the beauty of the Gospel; Jesus Himself tells us that we are worth dying for. You can’t even sing a children’s song like “Jesus Loves Me” and then say in the same breath that we’re not worth anything. Our hope is that this song doesn’t bring an essence of pride in any way that we’re worth something, it’s more the humble realization that even though we’re not worth what Jesus did, He did it anyway. That means it has nothing to do with us, it has everything to do with what He has done for us. There’s so much freedom in that.

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  14. This song firstly deals with the family unit while not just addresses the genders, but the individuals that are dealing with life struggles that tend to pervert the view of the "royal priesthood" that God has created. This song paints the picture of real humans with "feelings" and "emotions" in their world of helplessness, hopelessness, & hellishness. The lyrics depict the reality of people who feel completely worthless and as if they are haphazardly existing in a life that has gotten so loud that the premise of their identity has been suffocated. The narrative is portrayed of one which does not know the God of the universe has ears that are open to their cries. They are oblivious to the reality of a caring and concerned God who is "intimately" acquainted with the "feelings" of their infirmities and areas of weakness. These artist orate the intensely true story of souls that seek the ability to "understand" that they could be the recipient of unconditional love. This song so accurately echos the cycle of so many people who attend church and hear that they "can" be free, but are defeated by the "loftiness" of this concept for the state of brokenness of which they exist. In a desperate cry the hurting ask God help them believe that the Gospel or "good news" of JESUS CHRIST is truly specific to them. This song gives purpose to the wounded soul, outlining the truth that they are more that a mere "framed" existence consisting of "flesh and bone", but rather having so much "significance" that Jesus Christ in his loved died for the plague of their sins to redeem them back to their "intended" position before the fall of Adam. Questioning "Am i really beautiful?" the individual has been so marred that their sight has become damaged with the inability to recognize any morsel of worth, having a warped view of what God has created in his own image --> THEM. This song is a BEAUTIFUL depiction of the LOVE OF CHRIST & HIS SENTIMENT TOWARD MANKIND! God hates sin, BUT GOD INCREDIBLY LOVES THE SINNER! It's God's goodness, love, and kindness that draws sinners to be rescued or saved! God desires that we live in a higher place and not live beneath our privileges equating the finished work at the cross exclusive of ourselves. These authors paint the beautiful portrait of hope on the canvass of hopelessness to a person who feels that they are the exemption of grace. Despite the "sinful" nature of man, this sound resounds so meticulously that "GOD STILL SEES YOUR VALUE" and so much so that he sent his son to give his life as thate is the most extravagant, costly, and expensive price that could EVER be paid for the salvation, rescuing, and saving a soul. Let's be prayerful as we swiftly comment on things we simply may not understand. What if this is the song your mother, dad, son, daughter, relative, loved one or friend hears while on the brink of suicide that saves not only their life, but rescues their soul? "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" Ask the Holy Spirit his opinion of what he see's in these lyrics. #GodGivesBeauty4Ashes! God'sGraceIsSufficient4YourStruggle#ThePulseOfGod'sHeart #NothingIsWasted!!!

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  15. This song firstly deals with the family unit while not just addresses the genders, but the individuals that are dealing with life struggles that tend to pervert the view of the "royal priesthood" that God has created. This song paints the picture of real humans with "feelings" and "emotions" in their world of helplessness, hopelessness, & hellishness. The lyrics depict the reality of people who feel completely worthless and as if they are haphazardly existing in a life that has gotten so loud that the premise of their identity has been suffocated. The narrative is portrayed of one which does not know the God of the universe has ears that are open to their cries. They are oblivious to the reality of a caring and concerned God who is "intimately" acquainted with the "feelings" of their infirmities and areas of weakness. These artist orate the intensely true story of souls that seek the ability to "understand" that they could be the recipient of unconditional love. This song so accurately echos the cycle of so many people who attend church and hear that they "can" be free, but are defeated by the "loftiness" of this concept for the state of brokenness of which they exist. In a desperate cry the hurting ask God help them believe that the Gospel or "good news" of JESUS CHRIST is truly specific to them. This song gives purpose to the wounded soul, outlining the truth that they are more that a mere "framed" existence consisting of "flesh and bone", but rather having so much "significance" that Jesus Christ in his loved died for the plague of their sins to redeem them back to their "intended" position before the fall of Adam. Questioning "Am i really beautiful?" the individual has been so marred that their sight has become damaged with the inability to recognize any morsel of worth, having a warped view of what God has created in his own image --> THEM. This song is a BEAUTIFUL depiction of the LOVE OF CHRIST & HIS SENTIMENT TOWARD MANKIND! God hates sin, BUT GOD INCREDIBLY LOVES THE SINNER! It's God's goodness, love, and kindness that draws sinners to be rescued or saved! God desires that we live in a higher place and not live beneath our privileges equating the finished work at the cross exclusive of ourselves. These authors paint the beautiful portrait of hope on the canvass of hopelessness to a person who feels that they are the exemption of grace. Despite the "sinful" nature of man, this sound resounds so meticulously that "GOD STILL SEES YOUR VALUE" and so much so that he sent his son to give his life as thate is the most extravagant, costly, and expensive price that could EVER be paid for the salvation, rescuing, and saving a soul. Let's be prayerful as we swiftly comment on things we simply may not understand. What if this is the song your mother, dad, son, daughter, relative, loved one or friend hears while on the brink of suicide that saves not only their life, but rescues their soul? "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" Ask the Holy Spirit his opinion of what he see's in these lyrics. #GodGivesBeauty4Ashes! God'sGraceIsSufficient4YourStruggle#ThePulseOfGod'sHeart #NothingIsWasted!!!

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  16. This song firstly deals with the family unit while not just addresses the genders, but the individuals that are dealing with life struggles that tend to pervert the view of the "royal priesthood" that God has created. This song paints the picture of real humans with "feelings" and "emotions" in their world of helplessness, hopelessness, & hellishness. The lyrics depict the reality of people who feel completely worthless and as if they are haphazardly existing in a life that has gotten so loud that the premise of their identity has been suffocated. The narrative is portrayed of one which does not know the God of the universe has ears that are open to their cries. They are oblivious to the reality of a caring and concerned God who is "intimately" acquainted with the "feelings" of their infirmities and areas of weakness. These artist orate the intensely true story of souls that seek the ability to "understand" that they could be the recipient of unconditional love. This song so accurately echos the cycle of so many people who attend church and hear that they "can" be free, but are defeated by the "loftiness" of this concept for the state of brokenness of which they exist. In a desperate cry the hurting ask God help them believe that the Gospel or "good news" of JESUS CHRIST is truly specific to them. This song gives purpose to the wounded soul, outlining the truth that they are more that a mere "framed" existence consisting of "flesh and bone", but rather having so much "significance" that Jesus Christ in his loved died for the plague of their sins to redeem them back to their "intended" position before the fall of Adam. Questioning "Am i really beautiful?" the individual has been so marred that their sight has become damaged with the inability to recognize any morsel of worth, having a warped view of what God has created in his own image --> THEM. This song is a BEAUTIFUL depiction of the LOVE OF CHRIST & HIS SENTIMENT TOWARD MANKIND! God hates sin, BUT GOD INCREDIBLY LOVES THE SINNER! It's God's goodness, love, and kindness that draws sinners to be rescued or saved! God desires that we live in a higher place and not live beneath our privileges equating the finished work at the cross exclusive of ourselves. These authors paint the beautiful portrait of hope on the canvass of hopelessness to a person who feels that they are the exemption of grace. Despite the "sinful" nature of man, this sound resounds so meticulously that "GOD STILL SEES YOUR VALUE" and so much so that he sent his son to give his life as thate is the most extravagant, costly, and expensive price that could EVER be paid for the salvation, rescuing, and saving a soul. Let's be prayerful as we swiftly comment on things we simply may not understand. What if this is the song your mother, dad, son, daughter, relative, loved one or friend hears while on the brink of suicide that saves not only their life, but rescues their soul? "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" Ask the Holy Spirit his opinion of what he see's in these lyrics. #GodGivesBeauty4Ashes! God'sGraceIsSufficient4YourStruggle#ThePulseOfGod'sHeart #NothingIsWasted!!!

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  17. I think other people have covered it, but I would just like to say that this is a great song; very powerful. For me it did not have the effect that it had on you. In fact, I found it rather convicting; as in, how dare we judge and dismiss people when Jesus felt they were worth dying for. Just another perspective. I don't think they are minimizing God's grace, they are saying that HE felt we are worthy, like we are "fearfully and wonderfully made" and on and on. The lyrics aren't verses from the Bible, but I feel the concept is Biblical.

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  18. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost." Luke 19:10
    On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Mark 2:17

    Mikeschair "You loved me first lyrics--- And if I had to save myself, this NEVER would've worked.
    Mikeschair "Someone worth DYING for---"You're worth it, you can't EARN it"
    Gotta look at the context of the song, we can't earn grace, but we were worth DYING for, it was the only way to restore the bond between us and the Father. They are not saying we are WORTHY, Jesus is WORTHY, the only one who could die for us, and save us, and sinners were worth his time.

    Also, they are not saying he died for us in the context that we are worthy of praise, hes saying the point of Jesus died for us because, He loved us, and we were worth his time, his sacrifice of his life was worth it. If it wasn't, then that would be like saying that Jesus's sacrifice was pointless. Jesus is the only one worthy of praise, and glory, that is not what the song is talking about.Gods unmerited favor, his Grace, is someting we don't deserve. He even says we can't earn it in the lyrics. Through Christ, we are shown what we mean to Him, that we are His Children, and He made us to worship and be with Him forever, and that shows me How much Jesus means to me, to show me that He has a purpose for our lives.

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  19. If we were worth dying for, then grace is destroyed because grace is unmerited favor. In other words, we were totally undeserving. If we have intrinsic worth, as you seem to be arguing, then God was morally obligated to rescue us. It would be wrong for God NOT to rescue someone WORTH rescuing. It does not matter how badly we want to think we are worth something...we were not. No one deserves the perfect sacrifice of Christ. This is such a misunderstanding of God's nature and of the seriousness of sin. Your view, in an attempt to sound loving, obliterates grace and with it, the entire Christian system of thought.

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  20. I did not read all the above comments, but for my wife and me, this song has been such an encouragement, a reminder that each person is loved by God and He sees the potential in who each person can become because of the death of Jesus on the cross and His resurrection. If you want to come at this song from a theologically nitpicky perspective, then we are disappointed that you are so critical of a group and a song which ministers life and hope to those looking for a purpose to live. Perhaps a little grace could be exercised in your critique of this song.

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  21. Why is it that "grace" is the element that should allow for false views of man and God rather than correct them? Lyrics that are wrong are no different from teachings that are wrong. Why do people need to focus on themselves, on ME, in order to function in life? I was created by God FOR God, not for ME.

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  22. I find this page a little sad. I can agree that a lot of Christians hesitate to use the word Hell or Repent. But I don't think that this song is ungodly or wrong at all.

    If you hadn't noticed, in the New Testament, Jesus shows love to the sinners and outcasts. Jesus said to love the least of our own. If something is loved, it has value. We are valuable, but not inherently. We are valuable because Christ loves us and he gives us more than we deserve; he believes we are worth dying for, even if from a moral standpoint we are not.

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  24. Where does Scripture ever even imply that we were worthy dying for? There is another song called "Unworthy of the Blood." I like it much better because it is a true reflection of biblical grace, which is by definition, unmerited favor. Here is Paul's view on our worth:

    HERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
    11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
    THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
    12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
    THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
    THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
    13 “THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
    WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,”
    “THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”;
    14 “WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS”;
    15 “THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
    16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
    17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN.”
    18 “THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.” Ro 3:10–18.

    Now tell me that Scripture teaches we were worth dying for.

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  25. "A sinner is a moral outcast, a wicked God hating vile person who rejects God." That's a false statement, it sounds like it was made by a "biblically uneducated Christian."

    It seems like you're trying so hard to argue your point that you don't even realize that you yourself are speaking your own thoughts and ideas instead of biblical fact. The root word for sin in Greek means "to miss the mark" it was a word used in archery. James gives us the best example of this when he says "he who knows what he should do and doesn't do it, sins," we know that there's a theoretical target that God wants us to hit when we feel an inclination to speak a word of wisdom to someone. Maybe we know that he's called us to do something but we don't quite do it fully, or just not at all. That is sin. God gives direction and we come up short, that's what sin is. Are we vile God hating humans because we're scared to take a step of faith? No, we're not. We are God's precious creation, and to him we were worth dying for.

    By the way not everything you ever want to know is in the Bible, but it is in the wisdom and knowledge of our God who gives it freely to those who are willing to receive it.

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    1. The Greek word for sin is hamaria, and it means to act contrary to the will and law of God. Sin is lawlessness. To sin is to reject or ignore God's law. God-haters and lawless human beings do NOT deserve the love and favor of a holy God. God is not some soft, mindless grandfather spoiling his grandchildren. What a godless, American, mindless image people have of God! Men are damned and unworthy of the awesome work of Christ. Jesus did not die to make us feel better about ourselves which is the main focus of this theologically vacuous song. But as long as it makes people feel good, then it must be a blessing. Poppycock.

      Romans 3:10-18 teaches that sinners are moral outcasts, wicked God hating, vile people who reject God, his law, and his love. I don't know how long you have been around the Christian community, but you need to learn more before you go correcting others.

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  26. "A sinner is a moral outcast, a wicked God hating vile person who rejects God." That's a false statement, it sounds like it was made by a "biblically uneducated Christian."

    It seems like you're trying so hard to argue your point that you don't even realize that you yourself are speaking your own thoughts and ideas instead of biblical fact. The root word for sin in Greek means "to miss the mark" it was a word used in archery. James gives us the best example of this when he says "he who knows what he should do and doesn't do it, sins," we know that there's a theoretical target that God wants us to hit when we feel an inclination to speak a word of wisdom to someone. Maybe we know that he's called us to do something but we don't quite do it fully, or just not at all. That is sin. God gives direction and we come up short, that's what sin is. Are we vile God hating humans because we're scared to take a step of faith? No, we're not. We are God's precious creation, and to him we were worth dying for.

    By the way not everything you ever want to know is in the Bible, but it is in the wisdom and knowledge of our God who gives it freely to those who are willing to receive it.

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  27. No, Ed the Greek word hamaria does not mean to act contrary to the will of God. It means to miss the mark. The word originally had nothing to do with God. Like I said it was a word used in archery. When the word is used in scripture it is implying that we have acted contrary to God, but that is not the meaning of the word. When we act contrary to God we "miss the mark".

    Grace was extended to us on the cross because we needed it. We received forgiveness when we didn't deserve it. That doesn't mean that we aren't worth saving. Your argument makes no sense because even if God was obligated to save us through Jesus that doesn't mean that he didn't save us through grace. Grace can be given and it can be received. God gave us grace and we received it. Obligations can only be met, so even if God was obligated, and I'm not saying he was, he still extended grace because we didn't deserve what he did. It's impossible for God to do anything for us outside of grace because none of us deserve anything he does. Again that doesn't mean we are worthless, or not worth the grace he gives us and gave on the cross it just means we don't deserve it. We are worth dying for and that's why Jesus did it. He didn't do it in vain.

    By the way I've been around the Christian community for a very long time and I'm only 32 years old. Your attitude does not seem to be that of someone who is a loving and understanding Christian. Your comment about me spending more time in the Christian community was uncalled for. "Do not let them look down on you because you are young" God does not discriminate. The length of time spent in a "Christian community" does not provide a proper measurement of ones closeness to God. The amount of time actually spent with God gives you that measurement. You do not know me at all yet you make a comment towards me like you are superior to me. I'm pretty sure you missed the mark there with that comment, so it's a good thing you are someone worth dying for.

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  28. No, Ed the Greek word hamaria does not mean to act contrary to the will of God. It means to miss the mark. The word originally had nothing to do with God. Like I said it was a word used in archery. When the word is used in scripture it is implying that we have acted contrary to God, but that is not the meaning of the word. When we act contrary to God we "miss the mark".

    Grace was extended to us on the cross because we needed it. We received forgiveness when we didn't deserve it. That doesn't mean that we aren't worth saving. Your argument makes no sense because even if God was obligated to save us through Jesus that doesn't mean that he didn't save us through grace. Grace can be given and it can be received. God gave us grace and we received it. Obligations can only be met, so even if God was obligated, and I'm not saying he was, he still extended grace because we didn't deserve what he did. It's impossible for God to do anything for us outside of grace because none of us deserve anything he does. Again that doesn't mean we are worthless, or not worth the grace he gives us and gave on the cross it just means we don't deserve it. We are worth dying for and that's why Jesus did it. He didn't do it in vain.

    By the way I've been around the Christian community for a very long time and I'm only 32 years old. Your attitude does not seem to be that of someone who is a loving and understanding Christian. Your comment about me spending more time in the Christian community was uncalled for. "Do not let them look down on you because you are young" God does not discriminate. The length of time spent in a "Christian community" does not provide a proper measurement of ones closeness to God. The amount of time actually spent with God gives you that measurement. You do not know me at all yet you make a comment towards me like you are superior to me. I'm pretty sure you missed the mark there with that comment, so it's a good thing you are someone worth dying for.

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  29. My lexical source is Louw-Nida. There was an time, prior to Homer where hamartano meant simply to miss the mark, but then it came to mean transgress, and is used repeatedly in the NT to describe law breaking. By the time we reach the NT period, its meaning is far more specific than to "miss the mark." Your understanding involves the root fallacy which implies that the root of a word determines its meaning to the complete ignoring of diachronic shifts.

    Grace means unmerited favor, which means we were not worthy which means we were not worth saving. Otherwise, if we were worth saving, God had no choice but to act to save us. The cross becomes, instead of an act of pure grace, one of moral obligation.

    If we are worthy of saving, we deserve saving. Your are engaged in double-speak. Jesus died for us because He loved us freely, not because He had to love us. We are loved by God because of God, not because we are worth God's love. If we are worth dying for, we deserve God's love. God has to love us. He has to redeem us. That is NOT grace.

    The universal language of Romans 3:10-18 may be helpful. 12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
    THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
    THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.” Ro 3:12.

    Achreioo means that human beings have become entirely unfit, useless, worthless.

    I cannot help but wonder what you think about those who die without the gospel, without Christ. What happens to men who have never heard the gospel of Christ. Your answer is predictable.

    I have been in the Christian community longer than you have been young man. There are a lot of communities running around calling themselves Christian. That does not make them Christian. Those who seek and do the Word of God are the ones who are in the Christian community.

    My trouble with young men like you is that you display a profound disregard for historic Christian orthodoxy. As a doctor of theology, a doctor of the Church, I can tell you that historic Christianity in its pure form denies that any man could EVER be worthy of the death and blood of the sacred Son of God. Your understanding of the nature of men as well as the nature of God and the sacrifice of Christ are not aligned with Scripture. They seem to be more informed by modern, western psychology than ancient biblical Christianity. I would only encourage you to read Romans 3:10-18, Ps. 14 and 53. After that, a study in Romans might prove fruitful. Let God's Word inform your understanding of the nature of humanity and of our great God and King, Jesus Christ.

    1 John 3:4 explicitly defines sin as lawlessness. Sin in the NT is a rejection of God's law. To reduce it to missing the mark is relegating sin to "making a simple mistake." Sin is much more than being imperfect and making mistakes. The antinomianism of modern American Christianity, even in evangelicalism, is not biblical Christianity. It is a psychological, man-centered, moral, therapeutic deism that is nothing like the Christianity of ancient times. Modern American Christians despise the law of God. They think grace destroyed a Christians obligation to adhere to God's law. It did not!

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  30. You say that my answer is predictable regarding what happens to those who have never heard the gospel message. Is that because you know that I have studied the scriptures and can look to 2 Peter 2:21 "it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, then to have known it and then turn their backs on the sacred command". Or were you making a bigoted comment because you obviously feel that you are far superior to me? If you are not familiar with Dallas Willard you should look at his teachings and take note of what a humble man he was even though he was a professor at USC. I had the pleasure of knowing this man on a somewhat personal level as he was a member of the same body I am a member of. Never did I hear him talk about his educational level to show his superiority, nor did he make anyone believe they were inferior. If you are a true follower of Jesus how can you operate in such a non-loving way?

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    2. Dallas Willard? Really? How could you even think for a second, knowing Dallas Willard, and reading my blog, and having "been around" that I would have any regard for Willard's teachings? As I said, your profile was predictable.

      I was not touting my credentials as much as I was allowing you to see that a Th.D very likely knows how to handle Greek words. Thats all Christopher.

      Your endorsement of someone like Willard and his mysticism and spiritual formation is not at all surprising. Willard was an open theist, promoted occult use of the imagination, promoted mystical journaling, claimed visions and dreams, etc, etc.

      New age, emergent Christianity is a Christianity created by and designed for wolves in sheep's clothing.

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  31. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

    This is what I would like to know. If Jesus himself said that our value is worth more than that of a sparrow how are we not worth dying for?

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  32. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

    This is what I would like to know. If Jesus himself said that our value is worth more than that of a sparrow how are we not worth dying for?

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    1. I will answer your question when you respond to Romans 3:10-18.

      Comparing the death of the Son of God to God's promise to care for His elect is probably not the best way to go about Bible study.

      I will leave you with Christ's command for the kind of attitude we ought to have:
      10 “So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’ ” Lk 17:10.

      Jesus' instructions are more than just a little inconsistent with the song and a blatant contradiction to what you are trying to argue.

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    2. Didn't Jesus also say that we are no longer slaves, but friends - John 15:15?

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  33. So basically all you do is dance around anything that goes against your point of view. For someone that knows the scriptures so well I find it hard to believe that you are unable to see that you are just like the Pharisees. Anyone goes against your point of view, and it's blasphemy. They don't know what they're talking about because you're the great theologist who has all the years of studying under his belt. I pray the Lord has mercy on your arrogant heart.

    By the way I don't read your blog I just stumbled upon it because I was looking up the someone worth dying for song.

    "...you know that we who teach will be judged more harshly."

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    1. I would imagine that if you read my blog, you probably wouldn't say the things you did. What is abundantly clear is that there is no argument in your comments, no defense of the song, just an ad hominem rant. I call that empty rhetoric. However, I do appreciate your praying that God have mercy on me and give me grace to deal with my arrogant heart. If you could do that often, I would be grateful.

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  34. So basically all you do is dance around anything that goes against your point of view. For someone that knows the scriptures so well I find it hard to believe that you are unable to see that you are just like the Pharisees. Anyone goes against your point of view, and it's blasphemy. They don't know what they're talking about because you're the great theologist who has all the years of studying under his belt. I pray the Lord has mercy on your arrogant heart.

    By the way I don't read your blog I just stumbled upon it because I was looking up the someone worth dying for song.

    "...you know that we who teach will be judged more harshly."

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  35. Personally, I love this song. I understand what you are getting at, but I disagree. We are not worthy because of anything we've done or said, but rather only through Christ. I think that is exactly what the song is trying to say. When I first heard it, I didn't suddenly think that I could save myself because "I'm worthy", rather I felt comforted as it reminded me that Christ loved me enough to die, even though I was most definitely NOT worthy, but for His grace and sacrifice.

    cj

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    1. The difference between us is that I am not trying to read an experience into the song. I am merely taking its words at face value. I appreciate your perspective and understand how you look at it.

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  36. John Piper does a great job of addressing this topic in his ask John Piper series:

    http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/does-the-cross-show-how-valuable-i-am

    Key point from article: "Christ did not die to respond to innate value. He died to create Spirit-wrought value. Ephesians 2:10 says, “We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”


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